Paladins who become Blackguards

[fealhach2008]

I asked this question a while back from the opposite perspective. On this server, I'm wondering what happens to paladins who fall and throw in their lot with the powers of darkness.

Do the paladin levels get removed or replaced with Blackguard/Fighter/Primary Class levels?

Or do the paladin levels remain to reflect the extra favour granted by the dark gods on those who were once the champions of good? The game engine doesn't grant the extra abilities they would earn for this.

The reason I'm asking is I was playing with the idea of a Ranger/Paladin/Blackguard but feel I need to get a DM nod on this one. Or a stern look and a vigorous shake of the head.

(Sorry Wereduckling for the spoiler!)

[Jocularity]

I don't believe we have any problem at all with evil characters having Ex-paladin levels. Normally, players ask for a relevel to replace them with levels in something more useful, but if you want to retain those levels to emphasize the fall from grace then that's completely fine.  

[ZippyConspiracy]

I would have a different opinion than Joc on this, for mechanical reasons. It's my understanding that most of a paladin's special abilities come from being supported by his/her deity, and if they have a fall from grace, they would obviously lose favor with that deity.  Personally, I would say that a paladin who goes evil should have his/her levels replaced by fighter ones.

Divine power protects the paladin and gives her special powers. (blah, blah blah)
Paladins must be lawful good, and they lose their divine powers if they deviate from that alignment.

[Jocularity]

But the neverwinter nights system actually does stop those abilities from working when they fall from grace, does it not?

[NineCoronas]

It makes sense to me for them to be switched to a Blackguard or a fighter.

[fealhach2008]

Wouldn't a fallen paladin still seem like a more divinely gifted villain with the attention of their new god if they kept their pally lvls?
Ex-paladins have their abilities replaced with new ones which make them better than your average(!) blackguard: lay on hands, extra summons(virtually the same as what the engine gives blackguards but since the blackguard class should give them a mount the pal5 ability is just the same), and extra sneak attack. Fighter feats make him a better fighter. Yawn.

[theMannequin]

No, because the god he/she followed no longer would grant him/her any of the abilities.  No lay on hands, no spells, no turn undead, no uber saves thanks to charisma bonus, no immunity to fear and disease.  All of it would be stripped.  Based on game mechanics, probably best to recreate as a fighter.

[fealhach2008]

Yeah, point taken. Shame.  It would have been a pretty cool villain.

[Kattze]

You can go blackguard if you've fallen in with an evil god.  It's your character you can be as creative as you want.

[theMannequin]

I'd have to agree with Kattze.  The idea is cool sounding, so don't give it up.

[Wilaagins]

I know this is an old topic, but according to the Pen an Paper 3rd edition handbook a fallen paladin blackguard does get more abilites than an average blackguard because their new god likes them more for falling. I can't remember off the top of my head what they are, and my PHB is about 10 hours away from here but that's one of the things that's always bugged me on NWN, that and the lack of the tracking feat for rangers.

[TheMadPoet]

Yeah, depending on what level of Paladin you were when you fall the blackguard class grants more abilities to an ex-paladin of higher level than an ex-paladin of lower level. Unfortunately I can't even begin to imagine how to replicate that in-game really. For the sake of simplicity I say it's probably better to relevel as a fighter in NWN just for mechanical simplicity. Honestly I've never tried building an ex-paladin in NWN so unsure what exactly is lost when you lose LG alignment.

[fealhach2008]

Apart from losing all of Tallista's shiniest kit (rings, gauntlets, cloak) which were all made for paladins and restricted to LG alignment, none of the paladin abilities were removed.

As I said in a previous post, fallen paladins gain extra favours from their new patron deity in addition to those that other blackguards get. These abilities include lay on hands and summon mount which you still have from your paladin levels. There are other powers you gain that you don't receive because the engine doesn't take blackguard-to-paladin into account, but then you gain the uber saves from both paladin and blackguard which make up for it.

So far at L14 Tallista's a pretty mediocre warrior that's had to pay several thousand in gold to replace her gear with inferior replacements! 

I'm not good at builds...