Poll

How often do you take the weapon-related Feats?

Every chance I get!  Even my Wizard has Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff)!  My choice of weapon defines me.
As long as I'm not playing certain combat-shy Classes, I'll pick them.  Making a good weapon even better is crucial!
I don't care much either way.  Sometimes I pick them, sometimes I don't.
I'll take them for Monks and Arcane Archers, but other fighting Classes have too many available weapons.  Why pick favorites?
I only pick them for Fighters.  I think that every other Class can get more use out of non-weapon Feats.
Versatility is everything!  I refuse to pigeonhole myself with weapon Feats.
I just want to see the poll results.  I don't want to vote because I'm a weiner!

Author Topic: Weapon Feats: A Poll  (Read 2581 times)

Wids

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Weapon Feats: A Poll
« on: July 10, 2017, 03:55:46 PM »
So as Shazoradd approaches Level 15 and a new Feat, I'm reminded of my endless dilemna: To pick or not to pick weapon-related Feats.  You know...like Weapon Focus (Whatever), Improved Critical (Whatever), and so on.

Shaz has a pretty good bastard sword, so it's tempting to pick something like Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword) or Improved Critical (Bastard Sword), so that she can go forth even more boldly with that sword and split even more heads.  But what if I find something even better down the road, like a Vorpal Katana +5 or a Battle Axe of Instant Disintegration or whatever?

And there lies the heart of the dilemna.  On one hand, if you've already found a great weapon, why not make it even deadlier?  On the other hand, if you should switch to another weapon later on, you've essentially wasted a Feat.  Or two.  Or more.  This isn't such an issue for Classes with a weapon preference, like Monk or Arcane Archer; if you're a Monk, you're probably best off picking Unarmed Feats, and if you're an Arcane Archer, then Weapon Feat (Longbow) is probably your thing.  But for Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins, Rangers and the like, you just know that there's going to be lots of temptation down the road; specialize in the battle axe today and you're bound to find a Longsword +5 tomorrow.

This may not be a big thing for Fighters and all their Bonus Feats; I remember playing a Fighter with two pairs of Focuses, Specializations and Improved Criticals once.  But what about the others and their more limited numbers of Feat picks?

What do you think, all in all?  Speak freely.  :)

Darkzealot

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Re: Weapon Feats: A Poll
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 06:52:50 PM »
I often just make due with having weapons that are unaffected by the weapon feats I've chosen.
I tend to pick the feats early for the weapons I want them to be using in the end, and if they find weapons that are more effective on the road there, I use them till I find the weapon I actually want to be using.
Though I have found sometimes I skip weapon focus as long as I can in the build and get improved critical before it, since the 1 ab is not as worthwhile as the extra crit range in many circumstances.
"You get the award for the most characters clogging the veins of the server, building up like a plaque filled aorta"- DM Daisy.

Wids

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Re: Weapon Feats: A Poll
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 10:31:28 PM »
Well, that may be a consideration too; not all Feats are created equal.  Anyone can take Weapon Focus at any time, so it's not such a good Feat.  But Feats which have higher or more demanding requisites like Improved Critical, or Improved Knockdown, or Spring Attack, et al tend to be more useful.  Unfortunately, Weapon Focus is a requisite for Weapon Specialization, which can really help Fighters kill enemies faster at lower levels.  Disarm is horrible, Improved Disarm isn't so bad.  And so on.  And alas, Weapon Focus is also a requisite for an entire Prestige Class; if you plan on becoming a Weapon Master, then Weapon Focus is a necessary evil.  But hey, sometimes that extra +1 Attack bonus does make the difference between a hit or a miss.

But as far as the weapon Feats themselves, picking Improved Critical is still picking a weapon Feat, so my point still stands.  But skipping Weapon Focus doesn't preclude people from taking Improved Critical, so I could see a character with Exotic Weapon Proficiency and a shield taking Improved Critical (Katana), Improved Critical (Dwarven Waraxe) and Improved Critical (Bastard sword), since those three weapons tend to work best with shield-bearing front line warrior types.  The extra Feats might not be so much of a waste if we consider that they do provide a degree of versatility, especially if the character does have a variety of great weapons for them (like a Katana +2 +5 vs Undead for smiting undead, a Keen Bastard Sword +4 for general use, and so on).

Thoughts?

« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 10:33:09 PM by Wids »

Darkzealot

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Re: Weapon Feats: A Poll
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2017, 02:31:44 PM »
I am not sure I would branch out into having crits for all three of them. Bastard Sword and Katana are essentially the same. Same damage type and both do 1d10. The dwarven waraxe is only different in that it has a higher crit multiplier over crit range.
If I were to take more than one of the same weapon feat, it'd be to branch out into another damage type. I have a fighter/wm who started off with great swords, but after realizing he sometimes needed to fight with a shield I gave him the feats for short sword as well (And I opted out of rapier because at the time there were 3 people who had rapier as a main weapon, and not one used short swords, giving me a better chance of finding a good weapon without having to fight for it). It allowed him to both tank up and deal piercing damage, or to try to kill enemies before they hit him much, using the great sword.

And as you say, there are feats that are important for your build as a whole. Weapon focus being needed for weapon master only makes sense (since you have to pick just one weapon to focus on anyway), but where it is a bit of a shame is for fighters who are undecided what they want to wield but they do want that extra 2 damage weapon spec gives them.
Often times deciding what weapon to use is something I more or less decide as I roll the character up. If the character is inspired by a real-life culture or similar, I try to take weapons who would make sense in the hands of one from those cultures (say katanas if it is a samurai-type character or tower shield gladius for romans(I guess a gladius is a mix between a short sword and a longsword, but I feel the model is better for short sword, and overall the long sword is better to use).
If the character doesn't have any weapons that would make more sense than others, I'd look at the build. Is it a dex build? If so, that limits the choices. Is it going to be a 2-hander or 1-hander? If 1-hander, will the character use a shield. All these things narrow down the choices, and at the end of the day if all choices look the same in terms of preference, I tend to go for the weapons I either do not have a lot of, or the ones that have the higher damage potential.  Of course, it helps that I have a good understanding of what the loot tables can give me, but more or less in every case there will be good weapons you -can- find, just need to be lucky to do so.
Or you just find 6 epic spears and nothing else. That can happen too. Gives your character more to fight for. To find that perfect weapon.

EDIT: And as I touched on a little above, beside gameplay mechanics, I wanted to stress that obviously having weapons that makes sense for the character to have or use are important when roleplaying. I do not find it particularly likely to find a paladin wielding scythes, for example. It just doesn't strike me as a knightly weapon. But if you have a character with a story to tell then having weapons that help emphasize them or make them more interesting as a whole: Go for it.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 11:01:26 PM by Darkzealot »
"You get the award for the most characters clogging the veins of the server, building up like a plaque filled aorta"- DM Daisy.

Wids

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Re: Weapon Feats: A Poll
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2017, 08:03:28 AM »
Well, you would normally need a reason to pick Feats like those anyway (and don't forget that the katana also has a smaller "footprint" in your inventory than the bastard sword does, which someone might come to appreciate after stuffing one's inventory with loot and needing a spot to stick one last magic belt...but that's about it).  Like you might find a Bastard Sword +3 with 1d6 Fire damage as your main weapon of preference, but then you might also find a Keen Katana +2/+5 vs Giants which does +2d4 damage to Giants as well.  And you often cut through the Crags to go to Mirabar (plus, you'll eventually graduate to giant-infested locales like Mounts Frostbite and Hotenow), so that katana might seem pretty attractive too.  So why not pick Feats for both weapons?

To be honest, I've never tried my hand at a Weapon Master.  I assumed that if you had Weapon Focus for more than one weapon, you would be forced to pick one weapon before you could become a Weapon Master.  Is that the case?  Maybe I should create such a character, even though I already have plenty of characters already.  (It can't be Shazoradd; she's already earmarked to be a pure Barbarian with Rages both Thundering and Terrifying.  She might even become strong enough to lift the trap door to Borcha's basement!  Is that a courtship ritual in Borcha's tribe, Torin?  ;) )

I never tried to play a scythe-wielding Paladin, but I have had other characters specialize in it, either playing up to the scythe's associations with farming (ie. my scythe-bearing agricultural Barbarian from the Black Lion tribe, the one Uthgardt tribe known for taking up farming), its associations with death (ie. your usual black-wearing, death-fixated, run-of-the-mill Cyricists, Bhaalites or Myrkulites) or its associations with bloodletting and carnage (ie. my Baphomet-sworn Fighter who, alas, never quite made it to Blackguard).  Any number of horror movies can attest to the scythe's remarkable talent for slicing flesh and spilling blood.  Like Hostel 2.  Never have I watched a scene go from "somewhat arousing" to "ghastly and cringe-inducing" so fast....   :o

So the scythe has its Good aspects as well as its Evil aspects, depending on its bearer and its bearer's inclinations.  I imagine that a paladin with a scythe would be possible, since it's not really a given that all paladins must be knightly, just living ideals of their respective gods and religions.  Chauntea is a Neutral Good goddess of earth, farming, agriculture and bountiful harvests, and a popular goddess with the commonfolk.  What would one of her paladins be like?  Her Clerics and her faithful tend to be simpler, inglorious, rustic, salt-of-the-earth types, and her Paladins would surely be similar to their ilk (though paragons and defenders of the Chauntean faith no less).  And it so happens that Chauntea and her clergy favor the scythe as well.  So I imagine that a Chauntean Paladin might be driving his mule cart laden with freshly harvested sheaves of barley into town, then on coming upon a mob of brigands sacking and plundering a caravan of all its food and other wares, mutter a bitter, curmudgeonly prayer to the Great Mother as he clambers off his cart, takes up his well-worn scythe and imbues its harvesting blade with her holy power before closing with the brigands to teach them the error of their ways....

(Note to self: Chauntean Paladin, at some point in the future.  Do it.)

And Shazoradd is Level 15 now.  I love the Levels that are divisible by 5 at least on this server because characters of those levels can make some pretty lucrative Gold and Experience by easily hunting and killing criminals of the next higher bracket.  Bringing down those Level 16-20 criminals is pretty simple for her to accomplish now.  But then she's going to be Level 16, and those Level 21-25 criminals will tear her apart if she goes after them.  So Levels 2, 6, 11 and 16 are pretty lousy for bounty hunting.  But 5, 10, 15 and 20 are wonderful.   8)

(I finally opted to give her Improved Critical (Bastard Sword), and it's already serving her well.  Sadly, that meant passing on Cleave again.  I know; it's hard to imagine a Level 15 character from a warrior Class without Cleave.  Shaz was too busy taking Feats like Luck of Heroes, Alertness (because I hate those sneaky goblins in the Goblin Caves), Improved Initiative, Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Heavy Armor Proficiency.  Maybe she'll finally take Cleave at Level 18.  We'll see.)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 08:12:17 AM by Wids »

Darkzealot

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Re: Weapon Feats: A Poll
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 01:53:56 PM »
Good point, hadn't considered the two extra item slots for the bastard sword. Guess I finally have a clean winner of the two. Katana's rein supreme!

When you pick your first wm level you need to pick one of the non-ranged weapons you have weapon focus in, and that will be the wm class' focus. But I believe at level 13 wm you can pick another, and immediately get all the feats to work on that one.

Ayupp. A harvest deity could have paladins with scythes. That said, I do not imagine there's a whole lot of them running around. But it would definitely fall under what I meant when I said that their weapon emphasizes their character.

As for Cleave? I rarely find I can fit it into my builds. It becomes a matter of "Do I want that extra attack(most rounds), or do I want all of my attacks to have a higher crit range, or do I want to get that fancy prestige class"? Not to mention I generally do not like to get power attack, which means I often do not even think about cleave.
"You get the award for the most characters clogging the veins of the server, building up like a plaque filled aorta"- DM Daisy.

Wids

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Re: Weapon Feats: A Poll
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 02:47:46 PM »
Don't katanas cost a little more Gold than bastard swords do, though?  That smaller footprint comes at a price...not that the difference matters much when you're Level 10, of course.   8)

It would be nice if the exotic weapons had a few more options for Bludgeoning weapons, come to think of it.  But all we have is the dire mace, and not every character is a dual-wielder.  It would also be nice if the quarterstaff could be wielded as either a single weapon or a double weapon, like in tabletop D&D.

(Also, the flail weapons have their origins as instruments of agriculture and harvesting, used to thrash the grain and separate the seed from the chaff.  So a Chauntean paladin with a heavy flail might not be too farfetched, neither.   8) )

And don't forget that Power Attack as well as its Improved version are great for bashing open doors and chests, at least on those servers which allow bashing.  For example, this one.  You may get more Experience from picking open a locked chest, but not every character is good at opening locks.  For example, Shazoradd.  ;)

So who else has voted in this poll so far?  Speak up, people!  :P

alkmaar

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Re: Weapon Feats: A Poll
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 11:23:49 PM »
my ranger got exotic feat to use every twohanded weaponstyle weapon..of course...
some realy nice dpubbleblades outthere.. alk

 

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