Gods, Domains and Neverwinter Nights

[Wids]

As we probably know by now, Neverwinter Nights is pretty well starved for Cleric Domains in contrast to tabletop D&D.  This tends to pose a few questions and concerns in the cases of certain deities and any clerics subservient to them.  For example, Umberlee's Domains include Chaos, which is not represented in Neverwinter Nights.  Fortunately, Umberlee's other three Domains -- Destruction, Evil and Water -- do exist in NWN, so Clerics of Umberlee have three possible choices for their two Domains.

But some gods aren't quite as well-stocked, unfortunately.

This list isn't comprehensive or complete, but it's a start, and I'll be editing it as we come up with solutions (namely, suitable NWN-friendly Domains) for those deities who may only have two NWN-friendly Domains, one or even none at all.  Bracketed Domains don't exist in NWN and should probably be supplemented or replaced.

The List of Needful Gods
• Bane: Evil, Destruction, [Hatred], [Law], [Tyranny]
• Bahgtru: [Chaos], Evil, [Orc], Strength
• Beshaba: [Chaos], Evil, [Luck]
• Finder Wyvernspur: [Chaos], [Charm], [Renewal], [Scalykind]
• Haela Brightaxe: [Chaos], [Dwarf], Good, [Luck], War
• Leira: [Deception], [Illusion], [Mist], [Shadow]
• Loviatar: Evil, [Law], [Retribution], Strength, [Suffering], [Pain]
• Luthic: [Cavern], Evil, [Family], Healing, [Orc]
• Milil: [Charm], Good, Knowledge, [Nobility]
• Red Knight: [Law], [Nobility], [Planning], War
• Shar: [Cavern], [Darkness], Evil, Knowledge
• Siamorphe: Knowledge, [Law], [Nobility], [Planning]
• Sune: [Chaos], [Charm], Good, [Pleasure], Protection
• Talona: [Chaos], Evil, [Suffering]
• Tiamat: Evil, [Law], [Scalykind]
• Ubtao: [Balance], [Planning], Plant, Protection, [Scalykind]
• Velsharoon: [Arcana], Death, Evil, [Undeath]


Some of them might beg obvious replacements (like Leira would be a shoe-in for the Magic and Trickery domains), but we might have to chat about others.  For my new Talonan character, I substituted Death for Chaos and/or Suffering simply because that's where the more virulent plagues and the more dreadful poisons end; tempting as Water is (because of the Poison spell it grants), it just doesn't seem to mesh with Talona's theme.  And I hope I'm not too far off base with that call.

So what do you think?  Input, discussion and debate go here. 

[Tails1879_]

Some of the deities are hard to cover for, particularly Finder Wyvernspur. The domains available in NWN don't seem to mesh well with his domains at *all*. While in the case of Talona, substituting the Chaos domain for Death makes sense, it doesn't make sense in Finder's case since he's about renewal and transformative art. I don't see a suitable replacement for Renewal and Scalykind, but one could argue that the Charm domain could be substituted with Trickery or Renewal with Healing (albeit rather loosely). Would Animal be a good substitute for Scalykind, or would that be an insult to the Saurials?

Gond is another one that was pretty restricted. He has only the Creation and Knowledge domains, which makes only 1 NWN domain available. On his page, however, there is a list of previous domains he's had, such as Earth and Fire. Considering only one of his current domains exists in NWN, I didn't have any qualms about choosing the old Earth domain for my Gondar cleric Fortunata. Besides, aren't golems supposed to be earth elementals infused into the golem?

The water domain with Talona could actually work. Consider the different ways disease spreads. Waterborne diseases like Cholera are a real thing, and could easily cause a nasty pandemic in a medieval town. Sure, Talona might not exactly control water itself, it could be argued that it can be contaminated and then used by her clerics to punish those that speak ill of her faith. Since NWN is a little restrictive, I think taking the Water domain would, mechanically-speaking, work. (On a side note, now I want to play Plague Inc. again.)

[Wids]

Some of the deities are hard to cover for, particularly Finder Wyvernspur. The domains available in NWN don't seem to mesh well with his domains at *all*. While in the case of Talona, substituting the Chaos domain for Death makes sense, it doesn't make sense in Finder's case since he's about renewal and transformative art. I don't see a suitable replacement for Renewal and Scalykind, but one could argue that the Charm domain could be substituted with Trickery or Renewal with Healing (albeit rather loosely). Would Animal be a good substitute for Scalykind, or would that be an insult to the Saurials?

I'm not sure; Tiamat has Scalykind too, as she's the queen of chromatic dragons (and of any half-dragons or other spawn under them).  The Animal domain wouldn't fit Tiamat very well, and I'm not sure if it would fit Finder any better.  But I suppose it's better than nothing.

I'm wondering if Magic might be a suitable substitute for Charm, given the plethora of Enchantment spells which enthrall enemies.

Gond is another one that was pretty restricted. He has only the Creation and Knowledge domains, which makes only 1 NWN domain available. On his page, however, there is a list of previous domains he's had, such as Earth and Fire. Considering only one of his current domains exists in NWN, I didn't have any qualms about choosing the old Earth domain for my Gondar cleric Fortunata. Besides, aren't golems supposed to be earth elementals infused into the golem?

I tend to go with 3rd Edition's Domains, but dipping into 4th Edition (and its heresy) might work in some cases.  Earth, Fire and Knowledge would work for Gond, I think, with Knowledge to come up with some new invention and both Earth and Fire to get to the forge and hammer it out.

The water domain with Talona could actually work. Consider the different ways disease spreads. Waterborne diseases like Cholera are a real thing, and could easily cause a nasty pandemic in a medieval town. Sure, Talona might not exactly control water itself, it could be argued that it can be contaminated and then used by her clerics to punish those that speak ill of her faith. Since NWN is a little restrictive, I think taking the Water domain would, mechanically-speaking, work.

Good point.  Waterborne diseases are the reason why survivalists aren't advised to drink water from a stream or a lake without boiling it first; there was that episode of Naked and Afraid in Borneo, where Puma drank water from a stream and had to get pulled out of the challenge after he contracted an intestinal bug or somesuch.  I suppose that Water might work on some level, even if I don't see Talontar summoning or Turning water elementals over that. 

Plus, there's the old medieval threat of poisoning the town well, right?  Talona does poisons too, mass poisonings via tainted water and drink included.

(On a side note, now I want to play Plague Inc. again.)

"Plague Incorporated," huh?  Do tell. 


Of course, quite a few of these problems would be solved if Bioware had included Law and Chaos from the get-go.  The Thay server has those Domains scripted in, but it requires NWNCX to work and it's a bit of a mess.

[Tails1879_]

I'm wondering if Magic might be a suitable substitute for Charm, given the plethora of Enchantment spells which enthrall enemies.

I did think about that. Unfortunately, the Magic domain doesn't offer a single spell in the enchantment school. In fact, it's a pretty destructive school in itself outside of the spells mage armor and stoneskin. I don't think it could work in this case, sadly. Taking another look at the list of domains, I don't think *any* domain in NWN could be a suitable replacement for Charm at all.

I tend to go with 3rd Edition's Domains, but dipping into 4th Edition (and its heresy) might work in some cases.  Earth, Fire and Knowledge would work for Gond, I think, with Knowledge to come up with some new invention and both Earth and Fire to get to the forge and hammer it out.

Agreed, though the difficulty I had was that it *seemed* in 3.5e, Gond lost those domains. Giving a look through the history of the wikia page on him, it seems I was mistaken. Yeah, Gond had all of those domains in 3.5e, so I guess he doesn't have a problem after all. I should get my hands on those books instead of relying on that darn site.

If the deity in AD&D or 4e do provide some domains available in NWN, then I can understand using those in this case.

Good point.  Waterborne diseases are the reason why survivalists aren't advised to drink water from a stream or a lake without boiling it first; there was that episode of Naked and Afraid in Borneo, where Puma drank water from a stream and had to get pulled out of the challenge after he contracted an intestinal bug or somesuch.  I suppose that Water might work on some level, even if I don't see Talontar summoning or Turning water elementals over that. 

Yikes. I think I remember that happening, though I don't watch the show myself.

That's part of working with the mechanics. The water domain provides one of the key spells: poison. While it does grant Ice Storm, turn elementals, and boost the water elemental summon, I wouldn't think it's too much of a stretch for a cleric of Talona in NWN to take it at least for the poison spell itself.

"Plague Incorporated," huh?  Do tell. 

A game on my tablet (and Steam) that I've played too much of about spreading a disease globally. It's something that's gotten me interested in learning about Public Health in my last year of college.

[Neutral_Zone]

Personally, I've fiddled with this a little bit when designing some of the summon lists for the recent additions to the server.

Fey, Chaos, Charm, and Luck all come quite nicely under Trickery domain.
Law, we have associated with War and Strength (For some reasons we can't quite explain; I suppose it depends on the deity.).
Deception, Illusion, and Mist all fall under Trickery too. Shadow would be suitable for the Death domain, since they get a shadow summon.
Arcana? That's Magic. Duh. Unless you're talking Occultism, or Secrets, in which case I'd stuck it under either Trickery or Knowledge.
Undeath comes under Death. Or Sun, if you're a Lathandite.
If you follow a god of balance such as Ubtao I'd be happy if you picked two opposing domains, ie. Earth and Air, or Good and Evil.

Wow. Trickery gets overused. Unfortunately, I don't know what else to stick stuff under!

Unfortunately, since NWN is lacking in a lot of domains, it's really all up to the players to pick what they feel fits best. If you have a good excuse, I'm happy with whatever decision, even if it's not a domain listed under the deity or correlated to them somehow.

That said, we should not be seeing priests of Kossuth running around with the Water domain.

[Wids]

...or priests of Ilmater taking Evil and Death as their Domains, yes. 

Trickery's a nice Domain to have for a more Rogue-like Cleric, though.  My Cleric of Leira on the Thay server has Trickery, and every now and then she'd come across a chest with a DC 35 lock that she couldn't quite pick, or an Elder Wyvern that she really needed to sneak past undetected.  Divine Trickery's really good to have in situations like that, even if it's limited to one use between rests.

Of course, if you're playing a heavily armored, low-Dex, smashy-smashy sort of Cleric, then Trickery's not such a good Domain.  I'd pick another one.

And the dreaded Undeath to Death spell is Necromancy, yet it's also a spell that no Cleric of Lathander should be without.  Sometimes, it's good to court the Dark Side of the Force, eh?